Mental fitness

[Content warning: This episode mentions mental health, suicide and suicide ideation.]

This episode, we're tackling the big topic of men's mental health. We're working out our brains with experts, Mental Health Acute Inpatient Service (MHAIS) Clinical Nurse Sam and MHAIS Senior Exercise Physiologist Matt, who'll take us through what mental fitness looks like for men, how your body reacts to mental stress, and how to build resilience and regulate your nervous system.

You'll also hear from Queensland men, Glenn and Kai, who share their experiences and struggles with managing their mental wellbeing.

We'll be diving into how your body responds when your fight or flight response is constantly activated, and how you can stop that cycle in its tracks. This episode also explores what factors influence your mental health, in both positive and negative ways, such as lifestyle choices and social influence (hello, social media).

What does good mental health look like? What are the signs of poor mental health in men? How does the 'Aussie bloke' stereotype influence male mental health? Why do so many men go undiagnosed? When is it time to get help? Where can you get help? Listen to find out.

If you'd like to learn more about men's health, we have a whole season lined up. Make sure you listen to our next episode, where we explore optimising male sexual function and health.

Feel free to leave us a review too — we'd love to hear your thoughts.

If you are listening to this podcast and need help, this is your sign to seek it.Explore the episode resources provided below for more support.

Featured in this episode:

Mental Health Nurse Sam

Sam is a Mental Health Nurse for the Mental Health Acute Inpatient Service (MHAIS) at Ipswich Hospital. He works in staff development and coordinates the electroconvulsive therapy program.

He is a big advocate for fitness, both physical and mental, and is passionate about upskilling frontline clinicians. To Sam, investing in staff means tackling the stigma which can then provide consumers with better mental health outcomes.

Exercise Physiologist Matt

Matt is an Accredited Exercise Physiologist for the MHAIS at Ipswich Hospital. With qualifications in mental health and psychotherapy, Matt helps people get moving, exercise and practise mindfulness to support their physical and mental recovery.

Matt is very focused on helping people stay mentally well. He encourages strategies like building healthy social connections, adapting exercises to fit each person's needs and engaging in daily activities that feel meaningful.

Beau

Host of the podcast, Beau is a health-conscious marketing and communications worker in his early 30s.

He loves music, movies, food, drink, and sport (well, watching it) and hates misinformation. He's definitely a dog guy but thinks cats are pretty cool, though he believes neither are as cool as our native animals.

Kevin

Is an active 51-year-old who has been living in Australia for eight years. A communications expert with 25 years' experience who is passionate about health and wellbeing, Kevin said he never really thought about mental health until it impacted him.

Kai

Is a 22-year-old student currently doing an honours degree in neuroscience.

His early childhood was spent in Japan, allowing him to be fluent in English and Japanese. He is trying to add French as a third language but 'has a long way to go.'

Kai enjoys staying active with sports such as soccer, tennis, and volleyball. He's recently taken up running, with hopes of doing his first marathon in 2026. He loves both the cooking and eating aspects of food and has become an avid reviewer of coffee. In his spare moments, he enjoys spending time with his partner and their two dogs.

Glenn

Married with one adult son, Glenn, 62, is a recovering journalist. He is a media advisor, speechwriter, and writer who now works in social media. He has published over 100 English-as-a-second-language children's books, including picture books, graded readers and textbooks with Japanese and US publishers. He is a former surfer, martial artist, mountain biker, and rock climber.

Glenn enjoys travelling with his wife, playing rock and blues guitar, and simply messing about in boats with his 4-legged sidekick, Lachlan.

Episode resources:

TIPP

The TIPP method is a stress and emotional regulation technique, discussed in this episode. It works by hacking your body's physiological responses through four components: temperature (creating sudden temperature change), intensity (doing short but intense bursts of physical activity), paced breathing (slowing the breath), and paired muscle relaxation (focused tensing and relaxing of your muscles to regulate the nervous system).

Meditation and breathing exercises - Mind/Land

When your nervous system is overwhelmed, paced breathing can be a helpful activity to calm it. This can be in the form of breathing exercises, meditation or simply listening to relaxing sounds.

Take a break to connect with your mind with Mind/Land by Queensland Health. This podcast series is an icebreaker into the world of meditation, featuring the soothing sounds of the Noosa Everglades, Maleny Rainforest and more iconic South East Queensland locations. Choose from 1-minute guided meditations to hour long recordings of pure nature to try your hand at meditation.

Mental health first aid

First aid isn't only for physical injuries; it includes mental health too. Mental health first aid training provides participants with the skills to recognise and respond to someone experiencing mental health challenges, until they can seek professional help. Learn more about how to become certified through Mental Health First Aid.

Emergency mental health care

In an emergency, call Triple Zero (000) and ask for an ambulance.

If you feel that you may be in need of mental health support and have never accessed a mental health service before, our mental health access line 1300 MH CALL (1300 642 255) is available 24/7. This is a confidential mental health telephone triage service and is the first point of contact to Queensland public mental health services.

Organisations like Beyond Blue (1300 22 4636) and the Men's Shed Association are also available to provide mental wellbeing support. Find your local Men's shed location to connect with your community face to face or speak to a Beyond Blue counsellor online or by phone.

Transcript

Kevin: Yeah, I've suffered from a panic attack in the past, mental health issue

Glenn: I went through a bit of a rough patch, about five years ago where I started feeling completely overwhelmed by work and life in general.

Kai: I definitely think that you can train mental health to be more resistant to challenges that may come up.

Beau: Welcome to season three of It Can't Hurt To Ask the podcast where we dive into all your health and wellbeing, questions and concerns. I'm Beau and I'll be your host this season, all about men's health. We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we record.

For us, it's Meanjin, the land of the Yuggera and Turrbal people. In this episode, we're discussing the idea of mental fitness and ways that men can support their mental health and even navigate through tough periods. We know mental health is key to our overall health, but it can be hard to sort through all the noise around how to approach improving it.

This episode talks about mental health and suicide. If you're struggling with your own mental wellbeing, we've put information on how you can get support in our show notes. Our guests today are Sam Morgan, a clinical nurse, and Matt Wall, a senior exercise physiologist who both work in mental health at Ipswich Hospital. Sam and Matt will share some meaningful and achievable actions that you can take to improve your mental wellbeing and deal with the difficult times better.

Sam and Matt, thanks for joining me today.

Matt: Thanks for having us.

Sam: Thanks for having us.

Beau: Great to have you here. I think best place to start, let's talk about us as a society.

We're starting now to properly understand that male mental health is a key focus, but it's taking a long time. So can you talk about the barriers that we're facing with that?

Sam: Yeah, for sure. I think the biggest thing straight off the bat is probably a stigma factor.

Societal expectations and how they weigh on men, probably weigh on men differently to, how they might weigh on women or how men might interpret, what society demands of them. We have to talk about the Aussie bloke stereotype.

I mean, who is the Aussie bloke? The Aussie bloke to me, is a provider. It's that stoic, get on with it. Don't talk about your feelings, don't talk about your emotions, and just get on with things which is probably a little bit deleterious to men's mental health I know that phrases like man up, tend to perpetuate those harmful stereotypes.

Matt: And for me it also instills a fear of judgment, that oh, okay, if I'm not manning up, if I'm talking about my feelings, then does that make me weak? Yeah. people can experience it like that but sometimes, people just may not have the words to describe what they're going through, what they're experiencing.

Sam: A hundred percent.

Matt: I feel like when we're trying to reinforce that macho, Aussie bloke stereotype, what's it doing? It's kind of, it's kind of suppressing emotion, right? Mm-hmm. It's Mm-hmm. It's kind of pushing emotion, down. And I feel like what might be the result for men in particular is that when you suppress that emotion over time, there's a buildup and you find that there's, men seeking help only when things get to a crisis point as opposed to, experiencing a red flag. I should probably address it early on.

I think it's quite, from just a human perspective, it's very natural for us to want to avoid distressing things. It's kind of against our nature to go towards something that is distressing us, right?

Yeah. Um, we avoid many things. suppressing emotion in that avoidance is just one of those things Sometimes we work in that denial space. I'll say, Hey, everything's fine.

I'll be right. She'd be right mate. Um, and so.

Sam: Aussie bloke yeah!

Matt: we see that, across research and from our clinical experience, that when people suppress emotion over a long time, it doesn't just make their mental health worse, but it also causes a lot of physical health issues down the track as well.

Sam: Yeah. And the numbers don't lie, Matty either, like the whole, suicide, depression, anxiety being so overrepresented in men and suicide being like, the biggest risk factor for death for men aged like 18 to 44. Fact check me, 15 to 44. Um, yeah, I think that, that, yeah, The numbers speak for themselves.

I also think that on that, and it might be on a bit of a tangent, but when we're looking at disorders like anxiety and, and depression and suicide, that men don't always have the language to speak about these mental illnesses.

So I feel like being able to mindfully label emotions, label what we are feeling. I feel like that's a step in the right direction to address the whole mental health dilemma.

Beau: So I think that's a very good point about that explosion phase.

But I guess the important thing to maybe note is that it doesn't necessarily mean an outburst that's violent. Well, that absolutely can be the case. It could be spiralling. Into depression or something like that.

Sam: I suppose from my perspective, it's more about there being a crisis or reaching a boiling point of, what do I do to make this better? It's panic stations. It's not something that can be remedied early or there's no red flags to say, Hey, maybe I'm not traveling so good. need to do something about it earlier. Absolutely.

Beau: Are there signs? What are the red flags we should be looking out for In ourselves or in friends and family?

Sam: I think that when we’re talking about labelling emotions and how when you might not be so adept at labelling emotions, other emotions might creep across. for example, I might be feeling anxious, but the only language that I speak is, uh, withdrawal.

Or it might be anger. I might be painting a picture for you that makes me look angry. But I'm feeling something completely different. as far as signs men overlook, looking at, telltale signs of anger withdrawal isolation is a massive one that I'm going to hammer on a little bit.

Matt: a lot of people and a lot of men minimalize their experiences a lot. They'll go through a really difficult time or have someone close to them go through a really difficult time and they don't spend much time just sitting there in that.

It's always like onto the next thing, like, what do I need to do? What do I need to solve?

Sam: Yeah.

Matt: and so there's not much time to actually process it's a form of suppression in a way. It's like, oh, that wasn't as hard as it was.

Sam: Yeah.

Matt: over time if we're, not meeting our own needs and our own emotional needs, that's when things like anger can creep up. Because it's a conflict. Right.

Beau: I reckon you're on the money, Matty. And I feel like, um, sometimes being able to adequately label our emotions or being able to emotionally regulate, flip back to that Aussie bloke, Aussie macho bloke, it might be perceived as being weak, being able to label your emotions in a way that's not, anger or Yeah. I think, it's important to note, emotionally regulating is a key way of dealing with things, but you don't want to keep it all in. that doesn't mean not acknowledging feelings doesn't mean never feeling rubbish. like you said, that's how you end up at a point where you explode or implode.

Matt: Yeah. And emotional regulation is not the absence of emotion, right? It's about acknowledging and working with emotion. we can work with emotion and not have a label for it. it might feel like, hey, I feel overwhelmed. And that could be anxiety underneath that. But if we're not even sure, it's anxiety, I can say, Hey, overall I feel quite overwhelmed right now.

I'm not sure what to do. And sometimes when there's things that we can't control, especially for men, we drive a lot of our, I guess, um, stability on the ability to have choice, have autonomy,

So there's a lot of things that are feeling overwhelming that we can't control. Mm-hmm. You know, and funny enough, emotions and our thoughts are not something we can control, right? we're constantly, responding to our environment, what's happening around us, what's happening at home, what's happening at work.

Beau: with the red flags and things that might, you know, be able to tip you off it, it often stems from a situation or a change maybe. Mm-hmm. Can you talk more about that?

Sam: Yeah. I feel like, there's a certain degree of predictability, with destabilizing, stressors or social stressors, different times in your life where your stress might peak that you might be more at risk for mental health deterioration. I think arguably a good deal of mental health admissions to hospital are around those times, those times in life where things get a little bit hard, big events that we don't necessarily anticipate, like loss of income, especially for men because if you're reflecting on the stereotype, you're the breadwinner you are meant to be providing.

If you can't provide, then what is your purpose? So loss of income is probably closely connected with a loss of identity for most Aussie men. Um, big times, like even, even just moving house relationship breakdowns is another big one. Anything that's going to make you question your identity, question your ideals, and start to influence your mental wellness

Matt: Yeah. And I guess, from my personal experience being a father as well, that's a big change. Both not just having, a toddler or a baby to look after, but as they grow up as well and the changes both in what they're doing who are constantly changing. And we're trying to keep up with them whilst trying to keep up at work, try to keep at home, you know, and keeping our friends in our social relationships up as well.

it's a lot to do. and a lot of men can feel like they're is a lot.

Beau: Mm.

Matt: And sometimes when they're not feeling great they can feel like a burden on others or their family

It's a constant kind of conflict as well. that feeling of a burden onto others. Sometimes that can be a barrier from opening up to exploring, getting help again, if we work with that stereotype of providing and, always doing stuff, then if they feel like they can't do that, it can be a bit of a conflict.

having one child, you know, a few children, whatever that might be. trying to support their dreams and sometimes we have to sacrifice bits of our own we do that willingly, but there's always a cost to that.

Beau: Yeah, I think red flag's good terminology. Just be aware that there are times when things might be a little more tough. And I guess that also, when things change or when things are stressful, it's easier to let looking after yourself go.

A hundred percent. Yeah. You got to be doing your self-protective things. Yeah.

Matt: And we can still experience like in good situations as well, like anxiety, let's say if you go to start a new job, it's a good thing.

But we can still really feel very anxious

those feelings can pop up in both positive and I guess what we call negative situations.

And so it's being mindful of recognizing it both.

Beau: Good to know. Let's hear from a young Queenslander.

Kai: Hi, I'm Kai. I'm 22. I think men have a hard time reaching out for help when they're struggling, just because men typically are portrayed to be quite stoic and it's just a part of being a man to, not really be in touch or really care about your feelings and not not care and just be confident and be outgoing regardless of what's happening and just, yeah, be a man

Beau: So I guess, um, Do you have any advice or any reaction to that kind of situation?

Sam: Yeah, don't suck it up. Don't suck it up.

Beau: Good advice.

Sam: Um, yeah, that's not, yeah, that's not the, that's not the method. I'd suggest that like we, we can talk about societal change. All we like, can we really affect that? Not always, not as an individual.

I think it's important to acknowledge how we interact with what society tells us we should be doing. especially when it comes to negative stereotypes. for me, you've got to give a plug to grind culture. the idea that you just add more and more and more, um, the more that you do, the more that you provide, the more successful you are, the better human that you are.

stress and burnout are not things that men typically, consider or are comfortable talking about or are comfortable seeking help about.

Matt: Yeah. And sometimes if it is building in that kind of grind culture, you start to lose the enjoyment in the moment kind of thing as well.

Mm-hmm. Yep. 'cause we're always worried about what's next. Or if we haven't done something quite right, then we are worried about that in the past. And so we get stuck, right, both in the future or in the past, it pulls us away from the present moment. So sometimes when that's happeningsay if we had a big day at work, you go home trying to spend quality time with your family or your friends and we're not there.

We can't control necessarily how societal pressures are on us. But we can recognize that they are on us and how we can respond to them.

Beau: Yeah, absolutely.

Sam: Without saying terribly cliched, sometimes less is more. sometimes it is for sure. For sure. Sometimes it is jump off the hamster wheel for a little bit.

And I think that that culture leads into, isolation as well. When you're so busy in that rat race trying to provide and succeed, it's isolating you from what's meant to be nourishing you, and that's your relationships with other people. we know the isolation. drives disconnect and causes a lot of harm for men's mental health.

It contributes to risk of suicide and, depression, anxiety.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Sam: For sure.

Matt: And feeling lonely amongst people. we are social creatures

And so if we, if there's a lot pulling us away from connecting with people, we are going to feel disconnected and we're not going to get in both ways of those kind of interactions they're not going to have that same, quality

Sam: if we don't have that, then how are we coping? My argument would be That it's probably the rise of substance use as a means to cope with isolation,like more healthy mechanisms aren't available. So I think it may speak to why men might when they're feeling particularly isolated.

Reach out for substances. Alcohol's a big one for sure. in an effort to cope with a really unrealistic workload, let's be honest.

Matt: Yeah. A lot of the time or sometimes the expectations we create for ourselves,

I reach my goal and then I'm not satisfied because there's a new goal Coming back to the moment of, hey, I've actually achieved this. And really sitting with there with that, you know, recognizing the work you have done to get to that point is really important.

Sam: So you don't need to suck it up. No. Yes. You don't need to suck it up. That's, that's the answer to that.

Beau: I think with everything we know, it is ridiculous that we as guys feel the need to harden up or suck it up, for whatever the pressure may be, whether it's the mindset, the grind set. So I guess talking about ways of allowing ourselves to be vulnerable or, things that we might be able to do.

Do you think there are ways that we can overcome those societal pressures?

Matt: Many different ways. we can only control what we do. it's important to distinguish the difference between grind culture and being resilient. grind culture is all about go, go, go.

And avoid, avoid, avoid. it's about just doing and not thinking about anything else. Resilience is about recognizing what you're going through, being aware of it, engaging in that,

And there's the other way of going, Hey, this is a lot right now I have a goal. How am I going to make my way through this? do I need support to get through this?

Rather than asking support when I'm, flat as anything. How do I ask the support so I can do this with someone?

Beau: Yeah, absolutely. I think, um, resilience is incredibly important and it's, good that you bring it up because it's, it's not something that you can easily teach. it's not something you can just get, take a supplement or whatever.

I guess it plays into the idea that, mental health is mental fitness and it's something you actually need to build and, develop rather than just having it or being good or bad.

Talking about mental fitness, I'd love to know some practical things we can do to actually gain that or strengthen our mental fitness.

Matt: Yeah, and I think it's important to note that a lot of the things that improve that mental fitness are the very simple things that we do every day, right? Not just the going to therapy, even though that's great

The simple things that we do every day, how often do we move? How do we move? How do we eat? How's our sleep? How do we hydrate? and how are we connecting with those around us as well? In our social connection. how are we being mindfully present in what we do

So, to expand on that a bit more.

Beau: Yeah, yeah. Please do.

Matt: You know, talking from, I guess my professional experience as an exercise physiologist, exercise and movement plays a big role in our physical health, but obviously our mental health massively too.

Exercise can be really used as a great distress tolerance skill. So if we are feeling quite overwhelmed, may not be an exercise program, like a gym session per se, but if you did 30 seconds of movement of some type, no matter if it's light intensity, stretching, breathing, running on the spot as hard as you can.

That can help regulate the body's response to what you're going through Because sometimes, we will feel overwhelmed, say if we use the example of anxiety, We are feeling anxious, we're feeling worried,

Our heart's racing, our muscles are tense, we're getting shaky. We get restless, our lungs start breathing faster, Exercise and movement is really good. At regulating the body and calming the body during distressing times.

And that can be different for everyone, right? That can be going for a run that can be going to the gym.

Sam: Exercise is a fantastic circuit breaker. It's a circuit breaker for my mental health because when I'm pushing hard and I love to push hard at the gym, it's all I can think about at the time.

And not to mention the big dump of neurotransmitters that you get all of that, uh.

Yes. Yeah, all of that neurotransmitter release makes you feel good.

Beau: So here's a fun fact.

Did you know men who exercise regularly have better mental health, emotional wellbeing, and lower rates of mental health conditions such as depression and anxiety. Regular exercise doesn't just boost mood, it also improves memory, focus and overall brain health.

Sam: Rather than looking at just exercise, it's a type of behaviour, right? And there's other types of behaviours which benefit. Making sure we drink plenty of water and when we're dehydrated, our brain's not functioning well.

Matt: Eating well in general. and we know from sleep hygiene right now, that's a challenging one

Sam: Oh, I love a bit of sleep hygiene. Yeah. You know, for sure. And I think ritualistic being ritualistic about sleep is super, super important.

I think having a ritual, not only having a ritual for bedtime, signals to your body that it's time to sleep, it's time to wind down. it's mindful in and of itself. I think it's super important.

Beau: Yeah.

Sam: I think we need to touch on some practical tips for, optimizing your sleep routine as well. it's very easy to say, make sure you're getting some sleep. It's very different when you are rolling and tossing and turning frustratedly trying to get to sleep.

I know for me, having, a distinct bedtime and a distinct wake up time's really important. and I recognize, having been a shift worker for a long time, how difficult that can be. for people who, do work a rotating roster. That's where sleep ritual comes in.

If you can replicate the same process before bed each time, you're setting yourself up for more success. exercise in and of itself is sleep protective.

Mm-hmm. diet. What else I have to give a little plug to AI here as well because as far as sleep hygiene goes, saying to ChatGPT, give me an evidence-based five-step, sleep hygiene, toolkit.

Boom. Really, really good. Yeah. Red light therapy, eye mask, earplugs. The whole shebang. Yeah.

Temperature as well? So thinking about how we can set the room up to be as cool as possible with air flow, that kind of stuff, that can help us relax and sleep better throughout the night And put your phone down. Yeah, reduce your screen time. Exactly. I know that it's difficult, especially when we've always got connection at our fingertips. But for me, actually putting in a divide, saying I'm not going to pick up my phone for eight hours, probably the most beneficial tip for sleep hygiene.

Matt: And for some men as well, come home big day. They'll sit down, crack open a cold one, And for some people, we feel like that can help us fall asleep quicker. In many cases it can, but what actually does, it reduces the quality of that sleep.

Especially as the alcohol metabolizes for our body as we sleep, that actually interrupts the sleeping process.

Sam: That's terrible for your REM sleep,

And when we don't sleep well, that makes us more anxious the next day.

Being mindful, how much we are drinking before we go to sleep. And what small changes you want to have there as well. Drinking more water can be really helpful.

Moderation is key. Yeah. And if, if you, if you choose to imbibe, just examine why you're doing it.

Matt: And be curious, say if you didn't do it, give yourself a little challenge and say, Hey, tonight I'm just going to try this. Give it a go. Be curious about the experience of it all

And any change in a behaviour, whether it's healthy, or unhealthy, is hard. And so make small changes over time.

Sam: Habits take time to make and they take time to break.

Matt: Correct. Yeah. And a big conversation I have with a lot of people is around goal setting, a goal, I hear a lot of the time is I want to stop feeling a certain way, I want to stop feeling anxious.

We're all going to feel anxiety at some point in time in our lives, right? So it's not really a achievable goal to stop feeling a certain way.

So maybe a better goal to reframe that is to go, how can I learn some better ways to manage my anxiety?

Beau: Yeah.

Matt: And so it's not the absence of emotion, but how we can better work with it I always put my hats off to long distance runners. My mind can't do it. I'm amazed.

But I'm certain that's not the absence of challenge or uncomfortableness. But more about their ability and confidence building the skills and capacity to work with what they want to do as well.

Sam: It speaks resilience as well. It's not just the absence of a challenge.

Matt: Correct. Absolutely.

Beau: Yeah. I suppose you could call life a marathon in general, so.

Sam: Exactly. Yeah.

Matt: So what are we doing to prepare for it? Right? Mm. Marathon requires a lot of preparation. Yeah.

So what small steps can you take now, not just step 10, but what's step one, you know, that might be with you are feeling low that day, having a shower, drinking a glass of water, having a nice meal, calling up your friend.

Make the small steps and they'll build over time.

Beau: Absolutely. So that's a lot of great tips. I guess approaching it like training for a marathon or something like that. Getting your sleep, getting your exercise, hydration, all those great things. it sounds like good mental fitness is part of just doing the things you need to do for good health overall.

Mm-hmm. How do you think, like, there's so many things, what's the best place to start?

Sam: And I don't think there's, a perfect list of 10 things that we can give you, Beau, that's going to improve your mental fitness. mental wellness is so diverse and people value different things.

There's cultural implications all sorts that it's more useful to give a whole suite of tools that you can cherry pick to figure out what works for you.

Matt: Correct. And you know, from exercise front, everyone experiences exercise differently For some can be actually quite an uncomfortable experience exercising, from a body experience, from a how it feels If you're comfortable with that, start there. If you prefer swimming, go for a swim. If it's stretching, more relaxing kind of things you need to do 'cause you're noticing a lot of stress, then do those things.

And I guess there's also, speaking of exercise, sport counts.

Beau: Yeah. And even socially, to get that social aspect.

Sam: Especially when we're like nail on the head about isolation. Mm-hmm. So isolation kills, loneliness kills and being able to engage in social sport or even just your gym class and seeing those friendly, familiar faces goes a long way for social connection.

Feeding and watering those relationships whilst exercising at the same time. That's kind of your best case scenario, isn't it? It really is. Yeah. And

Matt: Building mastery of a skill. to learn and practice and develop that skill in a group setting. And to have that recognized and acknowledged by your group is really powerful.

When the buzzes down and you won, that's a great feeling. You know, it's like your euphoric feeling you experience together.

Beau: I love the idea of, having a bunch of things to do and being able to cherry pick, that makes it a bit easier to get into, but I guess it can still be overwhelming to start. Do you have any cheeky, quick wins we can go for?

Matt: Yeah, definitely. if we're in a space of distress, we go back down to what we call the TIPP skill,

TIPP. The first one is temperature, The most effective form is, cold water in a bowl. Placing your face in the bowl, holding your breath for 10 seconds and immediately it enacts what we call the diver's reflex, which lowers your blood pressure and your heart rate very quickly.

The second one, which I talked about earlier on, is intensity. So intense exercise. that can be anywhere from 10 seconds, 30 seconds, a minute. really hard exercise

We use exercise to raise the heart rate further, to work the body. After exercise as it recovers, allows the body to relax to a much lower baseline. doing some paced breathing, which is the first P, slowing our breath down.

Not just taking bigger breaths, but slowing our breath down, especially our exhale, that's going to help relax the fight or flight system that's kicking in

The last one of the Ps is paired muscle relaxation. And all that is, is we're contracting our muscles as hard as we can as we breathe in holding our breath, and as we relax our muscles breathing out, to get some biofeedback in our body, which tells the brain that it's okay, and then after we relax, we get a sense of release.

Mm-hmm. Sometimes we need to do all those, or just one of those to get into a bit of a space And then that might open up to a bit of mindfulness.

And I think it's important to note that it's not just meditation or the go goo. The woo woo. Yeah. Um, right. But bring, it's all about bringing our attention to the present moment. Now it's hard to do that when our body is upregulated, But once we regulate that, then we can come and go in the present moment, acknowledge that we are not our thoughts or our feelings.

Sam: I think for men especially, it's really important to drill that home, that even just taking a seat and thinking, I'm not my thoughts is mindful.

Matt: Or what we have or haven't done. Right. But we are separate from that and we can curiously observe what's coming up for us in that moment and how it feels

Like I'm Matt and I notice I'm feeling a little bit anxious. Versus going, I'm an anxious person. So it kind of separates what we're going through, through who we are and then goes, so what do I do need to do next? Is that mean I need to talk to someone?

I need to connect, take some rest, do some more exercise, whatever that might be, right?

Beau: So classic for guys. If you're 40 50, stretching your hamstrings. Powerful stretch response. As soon as you do it, that's all you can think about, right? It's very grabbing of our attention, so if thoughts or feelings are racing, we can use our body to grab our attention just for a moment, just to bring us back to the present moment,Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah. never heard of the TIPP method if our listeners want to find out more about that, should they jump on YouTube?

Sam: Yeah, Google it.

Matt: It

TIPP.

Beau: So we've talked a little bit about, the various challenges for guys. but what are some of the key and perhaps less obvious ones that we can be watching out for?

Sam: The first one that comes to mind for me is probably social isolation with men.

Super, super important to start to chip away at that social isolation.

Make sure that we're, integrating and developing and watering the relationships that are going to sustain us. we need to speak to burnout and grind culture as well. we've covered grind culture off, off quite a bit, but I'd love to talk about how it intersects with, um, social media, because we are all on the socials.

It's saturated. So I know we are looking at our TikTok reels, we're looking at our Facebook, we're looking at our Instagram, and we are being shown a perfect painted image of, in our instance, what a man should be.

Beau: Mm-hmm.

Sam: And I think we really need to remember that what we're seeing is not real life.

We're seeing a snapshot. We're seeing what the person in the photo wants us to see. it goes to speak to those unattainable standards Unattainable beauty standards. Or he's got an eight pack, I've only got a six pack.

His skin's perfect. Mine's not, what's going wrong? What am I doing wrong? How can I do more? And it just feeds into that grind culture of adding more and more and more. And feeling more and more and more empty. which is no good at all.

And the people that are the focus of that image or whatever we are seeing, they have the same struggles as we do. Yeah. They're humans. We're all having the same emotions. and nothing is perfect no matter how it might seem on a screen for sure.

Matt: Look, there's obviously pros and cons to everything. Socials are one of those things it can make us feel not enough especially if we don't have the time to exercise, to have all the good food, to do all these things, to get the top promotions all at the same time.

It can make us feel quite low. It can impact our mood suddenly in the moment, but also chronically over time So being mindful, I guess, of what content you are allowing yourself to participate in. 'cause partly, I guess the social media algorithms is the more you look at something, the more it gives you of that thing.

It's a great way of connecting with people too. And so it's this kind of double-edged sword sometimes.

Sam: Moderation's key, setting limits with yourself, even if it is putting your phone down when you're in bed or Putting your phone down for a bit when you're at home. Give yourself a timeframe that you will use social media or a timeframe that you will disconnect from it, I think's really, really important.

Yeah, for sure. I think we have to talk a little bit towards, the signs and symptoms of burnout. we've talked a lot about grind culture and creating this insane workload. Mm-hmm. Um, so what are we looking at with burnout? Burnout is particularly insidious in the sense that you don't always recognize that it's happening. There's that creep. and before you know it, you're massively burnt out.

There are those signs like lack of motivation, apathy, that I, I suppose they're classic signs of, of, of feeling a little bit burnt out.

One thing I do want to remark, especially as far as burnout goes, is it's the people around you that are your best emotional barometers. So for me, it's my sister saying, oh, you are not yourself.

It's the people who love you and know you well that are often the ones that'll pick up on you not being yourself before you even know yourself.

Yeah. And from a physical point of view, you might feel like, the normal things day to day, they're not changing, but they're just getting harder to do. Or you have to give more and more just to do the same amount of work. Or you might find yourself freezing.

Your brain's in shock mode basically. You can't do more. And so, you know, you're sitting there, half an hour's passed, nothing's going to happens and you realize it, but then you feel bad about it 'cause you haven't been doing stuff for 30 minutes.

I think it's all well and good for us to sit here and talk men's mental health, but there has to be solutions at some point.

What do we do? What are some pragmatic things that we can do? It's not just therapy. Um, therapy therapy's really important, don't get me wrong. Absolutely. Um, I think therapy has its place. without doubt. but therapy can be unattainable for some people. Therapy can be expensive.

There's stigma especially for men in male dominated fields, putting their hands up and saying, hey, I need therapy. I need help engaging employee assistance programs, Therapy is a useful tool for us to have in our tool belt. How do we access therapy?

We're lucky that we're in a bit of a technological age, so you can have therapy via Skype or FaceTime. It doesn't need to be a massive engagement It doesn't need to be that you're going somewhere, taking a huge chunk out of your day. you've got information at your fingertips.

You've got the ability to research ourselves, and, even just approaching your GP for a mental health care plan. engaging your employee assistance program. So EAP, they provide confidential counselling, and they don't involve your line manager. Being able to have that, is really useful.

Yeah. So the therapy's a good tool to, to have in the tool belt. Um, toolkit's kind of my key word. I love having a, mental health toolkit and, um, mindfulness. I know we've talked about mindfulness, It's an important tool in that toolkit. And it's not in the lotus pose. Um, chanting it is, uh, it's, it's a, it's a reasonable evidence-based tool that makes our mental health better.

It doesn't need to take hours. it's integratable into your day. I do it every day. you can use apps like calm, insight timer. Just short, sharp meditations or mindfulness sessions to encourage you to make some space.

And what I mean by space is being able to jam a wedge between you and the constant barrage of thoughts that you're having. Sometimes I recognize that when I'm doing my mindfulness, it's the only 10 minutes in the day where I'm separate from my thoughts. we might experience thoughts and feelings, but we're not our thoughts and our feelings we're passive observers of our thoughts and our feelings.

Matt: . And something as well, even if it's been a tough day just talking and trying to go, Hey, what's one thing that we found funny that we enjoyed, that we, um, really had a great time with today?

It can be the smallest of moments. You know, but the way our brain is, is quite biased towards negativity or the bad stuff, right? it's designed to function that way, but it can take us away from actually spotting and realizing the positive things as well. taking that moment to just go, Hey, I was really grateful when you did that for me, really appreciate that. Thank you.

Sam: Yeah. I like where you're going with that. And it speaks to gratitude journaling even if it's just opening the notes on your phone and writing down five things that you were really grateful for that day, what that does is it addresses that negativity bias.

So instead of thinking, oh, life's really bad because I had an argument in the car park on the way into work. I didn't get the park that I wanted. My lunch wasn't hot enough. we're addressing that bias that our brain has towards negativity, reframing it in a positive way. So, we're forcing ourselves to acknowledge the good that's happened in the day,

Saw a bit of blue sky today, or, got my good car park this morning. little things count. We are what we do repeatedly and if you can build this toolkit into your daily routine, make a habit out of it, you'll be better for it. For sure.

Beau: I think the idea that, things like mindfulness or journaling, sound a bit foreign to a lot of guys for sure.

If you talk about, the TIPP method, you might already be doing it and you don't realize, or there might be a simple tweak you can do, like you're already maybe having a coffee and going outside for your coffee break.

Matt: Mm.

Beau: You can pay attention to the fact that you're out there and the sky's nice, or you're listening to good music or something like that. reducing the barrier to entry for those things, making them not as scary.

Sam: That's a very different experience is sitting down and doom scrolling on our phones.

Matt: And like, I do that too. I'm just saying that too. I'm not going to call out anyone, but I do it myself. But it's a very different experience. And if you compare the two, what puts us in a better position mentally.

Beau: Yeah. And I guess the thing you got to remember too, the algorithm is not necessarily showing you what you want to see.

It's showing you what, someone who's paying money wants you to see. and it can lead to, some really unhealthy situations. I know for me personally, when I realized I was spending too much time, scrolling through reels I was like, let's just get a different app.

I can still use my phone. So the habit wasn't hard to change. But I was like, oh, let's do DuoLingo fun, you know?

Sam: Yeah. A little, almost like a little activity snack. It's like a brain snack. Yes. Love my DuoLingo. Yep. That's really good. And fundamentally more useful than our scrolling time on TikTok, for sure.

Beau: Like I was getting smarter, not dumber. Yeah.

Sam: Good.

Beau: Yeah. So I think it's important that, guys realize that there are things that you can do that aren't a huge barrier to entry

Matt: Yeah.

Beau: They're going to be making powerful impacts in your day or your life in general.

Sam: I think the irony there is we build up an image of being a provider. The man needed to be a provider. The irony is by integrating some of these things we can provide better. because our mental health's better.

Beau:

Let's hear from Glenn who's talking about a watershed moment for him and his mental health.

Glenn: I'm Glenn and I'm 62 years old.

I went through a bit of a rough patch, uh, about five years ago where I started feeling completely overwhelmed by work and life in general. My family pointed out that my behaviour had changed, but at that time I wasn't sure if it was just the extra work stress or something more serious was going on.

Beau: So I guess to that, when we're trying to analyse how big something we're dealing with is. Is there a way, to tell the difference between what's something serious and what's just a bit of stress or something rough that happened?

Sam: It's hard. Yeah.

Matt: It's, it's something that even mental health clinicians ...

Sam: Struggle.

Matt: Struggle with, right. Mmm, a few things, I guess how we approach and how we support people and exploring their experiences is, you know, is this new for them? compared to last week is this new? Because time is a factor.

Matt: If we're having persistent feelings, it's going to have persistent impacts on their behaviours, just like Glenn's family noticed

The other things we'll be curious to explore is, you know, the intensity of the experience and how that changes over like a week period, you know, from how their mood is, how their sleep is, how their energy levels are. they might be experiencing anxiety amongst that as well to see how that changes the intensity.

If there's particular times of the week, that we're quite intense in our experiences of stress or anxiety or our moods low, then that gives us more information around what might be happening around that time.

Sam: Clinically we call them neurovegetative symptoms. So monitoring symptoms like apathy, feeling flat, not feeling motivated, not deriving pleasure or joy out of activities. it's important to catalogue it over time to see if there's a pattern. if we can put a word to it, then it can mean something. If we're not aware of it, then it, we're just going to continue feeling the way that we are feeling.

For us clinically it might be talking to the family members for collateral, but we can do the same thing for ourselves. being able to, acknowledge and talk to our loved ones family and friends, they can be our emotional barometer and tell us when things might be up, when we might not even be aware of it ourselves.

For sure.

Matt: I think another important part is if what we're going through is impacting our behaviours if it's meaningful behaviour such as social connection, our occupation, things that are valuable to us.

If we are pulling away from the things that are most important to us, that's a big sign that something's not quite right.

Beau: Mm.

Sam: There are some bigger red flags you're talking about, Matty like that danger zone of social withdrawal. Yeah. Um, withdrawing from the activities that we really derive joy from.

A lot of the time they're those red flags that get us a little bit nervous. especially when it comes to suicidal thoughts, rumination, anxiety, these are things that you might not always be able to fix by yourself. being able to acknowledge when it's happening, pick it up quickly and reach out for help, know where to go for help becomes of prime importance for sure.

speaking of help, where do we reach out for help? in an emergency, we know we've got triple zero pretty cut and dry. we know that we've got  1300 MHCALL. 1300 MHCALL is a free service. You can call and connect with, the acute care team of your closest mental health service, and they can give you advice over the phone, even if the advice is watch and wait or present to the emergency department.

Really good value. there are places like Men's Shed, Beyond Blue lots of different, community organizations that specialize in men's mental health that can, give you solutions or point you in the right direction

Matt: But really want to encourage, if you're listening, you are not in a great space, it's always okay to ask for help.

Sam: It's not weak to speak, for sure.

Matt: Definitely not

Sam: for sure.

Matt: And that's, that's the strength really. Yeah. You are taking the courage and go, hey, I'm not in a good space.

Sam: You're going to be fundamentally more productive if you address it just like you would address pancreatitis.

You wouldn't do it with any other illness. So why do it for a mental concern.

Beau: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Although it can be hard for guys in the first place to get to a doctor or anything like that when you do have a serious condition.

Sam: Yeah. we've really got to work on reducing the stigma and normalizing the experience of mental illness, especially for men. one in five Australians has a mental illness in any given year, but five in five have interactions with mental illness at some point in their lifespan.

No one is untouched by mental illness and it's a responsibility of every single one of us to have enough in our toolkit to be able to support ourselves and support the loved ones around us. For sure. It's not the one in five, it's all of us. We're all in this together.

Matt: And if you are working in a or responsible for managing people, do your mental health first aid training. So, so important in equipping you with the language and the skills in engaging the people you work with in work appropriate conversations around mental health but also when people come to you at times of distress you're in a better space to better equip them and support them and guide them to the appropriate supports

A lot of us, I suppose we do our CPR first aid training, right? Yeah. And you know, if we're thinking this is a big issue, why aren't we preparing and mandating that we're training? You know, this area as well,

Sam: It's in lay terminology as well.

Mm-hmm. It's, it's easily digestible. You get a little manual. Yep. Mental Health First Aid is a fantastic resource. Most certainly.

Beau: Yeah. Great to know about stuff like that that's out there that, you know, might just not be circulated or mandated, so, yeah. because I think, one of the easiest ways for guys to give support or seek support is just to connect and, you know, like you said, paying attention to the behaviours of others and just knowing if they're not maybe feeling or looking that great or behaving a little differently, I think is very key because, it is hard to reach out and it is, hard to also offer help. Mm. on either side of the coin.

I think that's something we've all got to get better with. finding a behaviour that works, whether it be going and playing sport or taking your mate out for a beer, or maybe I shouldn't recommend beer, but you know, your moderation. Whatever works. to help ease that conversation.

And sometimes you're not going to fix it straight away, but at least you might plant the seed.

Sam: Exactly. Right. And you're working on that. I think we talk a lot about safety nets and safety planning, and by doing that, you are working on that person's safety plan. you are not only taking him out for a drink, allowing them to ventilate, feel, heard, raise any concerns, but you're also saying, Hey,

I'm here to listen if things get bad. And we know that if we've, if we are more prepared prior preparation, right. If we're more prepared, when things do get really bad, it makes it easier to climb out. For sure.

Matt: And if you are aware of more information around this situation, meeting at the pub for a beer may not be the most appropriate true places.

Right. So context matters in that kind of decision making too, because sometimes alcohol is a big factor to a lot of poor mental health and in men.

And so in being mindful of just making space for them, being there for them, that can mean the world to them. Mm. You know, it's not about solving their issues, even from a therapist perspective, we're not trying to solve their issues, we're trying to help support them to work with them and through them.

Yeah.

Sam: What's a meaningful life? that's the aim of the game. There's not necessarily a cure for mental illness, but we can help you to achieve a meaningful life.

Matt: Yeah.

Sam: Yeah.

Beau: All right. So I think we're just about at the end of our time. Mm-hmm. for all our listeners, myself included, can you give us one habit that you would love for us to take away from this chat?

Sam: Just one thing.

Beau: Yeah.

Sam: Easy. You need to prioritize connection, even if what that looks like for you is reaching out 10 minutes a day - family member, a friend, a trusted colleague, someone who's going to support your mental health when things get tough. look at it like a house plant. You need to water the relationships that are going to serve you.

And it's reciprocal. you being able to, have a discussion with someone, allows them to recognize they can have a discussion with you as well. So my hottest tip is prioritizing connection. even we're all busy 10 minutes a day. It's not that much in the grand scheme of things. Mm-hmm. Um, reach out to someone.

I have to insert a little caveat there though. not all connections are fantastic when it comes to, having discussions around mental health. Some people you might find more useful than others, just remember that, some people are really good for some things and not other things.

Some people might not necessarily be really, really, beneficial for problem solving. Some people super pragmatic, really, really good with a solution. But what if I just want a vent? Have your people for different things.

Beau: I think we've had some great advice and some good discussion in this episode. Thanks so much for joining us, Sam and Matt. I think it's been very enlightening to myself and I'm sure all those listening, so I really appreciate you coming here for a chat.

Sam and Matt: Thank you for having us. it's been a pleasure. Thanks for listening. Appreciate that.

Beau:

If this podcast has raised any issues for you or you are struggling with your mental health, please talk to your doctor or call 1300 MH CALL. That's 1300 642 255. If you'd like more information, you can search mental health, how to get help, Queensland Health for a list of mental health services in Queensland.

If you or someone you know needs immediate help, call triple zero (000) or go to your nearest emergency department.

Be sure to tune into our next episode Please subscribe and leave us a review.

Many thanks to Sam and Matt and the team at West Morton Hospital and Health Service.

This podcast was produced by Queensland Health.