Summary
This episode is part of the It Can’t Hurt to Ask: Parents' Group
Is your toddler finding their independence while you’re still figuring out yours?
In Episode 5 of Parent’s Group, Season 4 of It Can’t Hurt To Ask, your hosts Caitlin, Steph and Alex explore the one to 2 year mark; a time full of transitions, tug-of-war feelings, and late-night comparisons.
Clinical Nurse Megan is back to talk about returning to work, toddler separation anxiety, navigating guilt, and why your connection matters more than hitting milestones.
We also hear from Shahedah and Sufyaan about what it’s really like returning to work as parents of a baby and toddler, and how they’re making it work as a team.
Featured in this episode
Megan
Megan is a clinical midwife currently working at Waijungbah Jarjums- an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander maternal and child health service. Megan’s role encompasses antenatal education, child and family health and postnatal support to better provide care to our First Nations community on the Gold Coast.
Caitlin
Caitlin is the proud mum of a busy, maths-loving and dino-obsessed 7-year-old and a sassy, creative, princess-obsessed 4-year-old. She loves the mess and magic of motherhood and manages the extra complexity of parenting a child with a disability and navigating her own physical birth injury.
In between her paid work in digital marketing, school and kindy drop offs, playdates, and kids' sports, therapy and extracurricular activities, Caitlin relishes the moments she gets to herself and the simple joys of a hot shower (bliss!), warm cuppa and chatting with her besties on the drive home from work.
Steph
Steph is a non-birthing mum of 2 kids — a 6-month-old and a 3-year-old. Her wife carried both of their babies and is currently a stay-at-home mum while Steph works full-time in communications.
As a mum of 2 little ones, Steph doesn’t have time or energy for hobbies, but when she does get the chance, she enjoys sitting down for more than 5 minutes and eating a meal when it is still hot.
Alex
Alex has spent more time raising kids than being one. He is a dad to an 18- and 17-year-old from his first marriage, and a 4-year-old from his second.
Between working in creative media and being a parent, he also enjoys playing guitar, cooking and martial arts (but only between 10pm and 12am when everyone is asleep). He lives with his 3 kids, wife and mum, leaning into the richness and chaos of intergenerational living.
Episode resources
If you or someone you know is struggling with their mental wellbeing, support is available.
In an emergency, always call Triple Zero (000).
The following services can provide help and counselling to you in non-emergency situations.
13HEALTH, call 13 43 25 84 and talk to a registered nurse 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Pregnancy, Birth and Baby Helpline, call 1800 822 436 to speak with a trained counsellor about the first year of your child’s life.
Parentline, call 1300 301 300 for advice and counselling about any issue that affects you as a parent. Available from 6am to midnight AEST, 7 days a week.
Perinatal Anxiety and Depression Australia (PANDA), contact PANDA on 1300 726 306 or chat online if you or your partner are feeling depressed, or you are struggling after the birth of your child. Available from Monday to Friday, 9am–7pm.
MensLine Australia, call 1300 789 978 if you’re a man and have family or relationship concerns. Available 24 hours a day.
Lifeline, call 13 11 14 (24 hours a day) if you are experiencing a personal crisis or chat to a counsellor online.
Beyond Blue, call 1300 224 636 for broad mental wellbeing support or speak to a counsellor online.
Connecting2u: sign up for free text messages, support, info and tips for during pregnancy and after you have your baby.
ForWhen, call 1300 242 322. Available Monday – Friday 9.00am–4.30pm.
SMS4DADS, sign up for free text messages, support, info and tips – for dads and dads-to-be.
Raising Children Network offers ad-free parenting videos, articles and apps backed by Australian experts.
Triple P – Positive Parenting Program, free parenting courses for parents and carers of children under 12.
Queensland Health Child Health Clinics, Child health services have clinics across the state to provide parenting information and support for families in Queensland. Free services may include nutrition, child growth and development assessments. You need to book an appointment for these services.
Disclaimer
The stories and conversations shared by the hosts in this podcast reflect their personal views, experiences, and opinions. They are shared for informational and educational purposes only and are not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Queensland Health does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of the views expressed by guests and accepts no responsibility for any loss or damage that may result from relying on this content.
If you have questions about your health or treatment, please speak with a qualified healthcare professional.
Transcript
Caitlin
Hello and welcome back to It Can't Hurt To Ask, a podcast by Queensland Health. I'm Caitlin.
Steph
I'm Steph.
Alex
And I'm Alex. Thanks for joining us again as we continue to explore the early years of parenthood, stage by stage.
Caitlin
Today we are entering that one to 2-year-old stage. It's one of my personal favourites.
You might be returning to work at this time or your kids might be starting daycare. You might be navigating toddler moods or trying to find a new rhythm as a family.
Steph
Yeah, there's often a real tug of war at this stage. You want to stay close and connected but also help your little one to explore the world and build that independence.
Before we get into all of that, how is everyone going this week?
Caitlin
Not a lot of sleep at my place at that moment.
Steph
Oh no.
Caitlin
My 4-year-old is partying at night; she's waking up a lot. It's like, a whole laundry list of reasons, you know, I wanna do a wee, I'm thirsty, I'm cold, and my pillow fell off the bed. You know, so there's a, a lot happening at my place at the moment.
It can make it really hard to show up with a functioning brain at work. So, I'm struggling a bit with that.
Steph
Yeah.
Alex
Yeah, yeah. I hear that. It's funny, this one to 2 year, you know, last episode we touched on kind of being in the trenches. I feel like this is the emergence a little bit out of those trenches, this kind of period.
It's all that hard work's beginning to pay off, you know, it's really nice.
This week at home for us, it's been pancakes every morning. So, my daughter gets up at like 5:30, 6 o'clock. What do you want for breakfast? Pancakes!
And it's really fun because it's taken me back to my older daughter. So when she was younger, baking was our kind of like love language. Like we bonded over baking a lot and that lasted for quite a few years until she just kind of grew out of it and moved onto other things.
But now that this other little one is coming along and wanting the pancakes every morning, it's really making me revisit that time and remember just how special it all was, which is really nice.
Steph
Oh, that's so nice. I wish we were having more nice moments at home, but I just feel like we're playing Russian roulette with sickness at the moment. Just constantly, it feels like someone is sick. There's always one person sick, it feels like you can pinpoint the days when. I'm not sick more than when I am sick.
I feel like that's just this stage of life and it can get you really down sometimes too, you just get so over it and you just want to be able to do stuff and move on. But you kind of just have to lean into it and go with the flow a bit and let go of that control, which can be a bit hard to do sometimes, but yeah, that's, that's how we're going at the moment.
Caitlin
Mm-hmm.
Before we begin, we want to acknowledge the Traditional Custodians of the land on which we are recording. For us, it's Meanjin, the land of the Yuggera and Turrbal people. We pay our respects to Elders, past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners, including parents and caregivers out there.
Joining us again is Megan, clinical nurse with Waijungbah Jarjums. Megan's a midwife, a child health nurse, Circle of Security and Triple P facilitator, and she's also studying to become a lactation consultant. You're wearing a lot of hats, Megan. Welcome back.
Megan
Thanks for having me, guys.
Caitlin
Let's talk about one of the biggest transitions in this stage for many parents: returning to work. And I want to acknowledge not all parents return to paid work after having a child. So, shout out to all of those stay-at-home parents out there.
But for those who do, Megan, what kind of emotions come up for us parents and also our kids during this time.
Megan
It's so complex. I think like that return to work often, for parents, there can be feelings of guilt for being, away from your little one, especially if you've had the first 12 months at home. It can be a big transition. And that separation anxiety, not just for your little one, but for you as well of being away, that anxiousness of, what are they going to be doing all day? I'm not going to be there with them all day like I normally am.
Like every second that you're at work, you're thinking, what are they doing right now at this second? I wonder if they're having their sleep now. That's when they would normally sleep. I wonder what they're eating, have they had their food?
Like, and you are trying to focus on your work, but your brain and your heart feels like it's at daycare with your little one.
Caitlin
Mm-hmm.
Megan
And then there's other feelings that can come up, too. Excitement, returning back to work, having adult conversations in your day, having a break to have lunch and having a hot coffee maybe when you get to work or those sorts of things as well.
And that's all very normal and, you know, it’s so okay to feel that like excitement to have a different hat on for the day rather than just being a parent, being able to go back into work mode and be able to do that as well.
Alex
And wearing pants, too.
Steph
Yeah.
Alex
That very exciting moment when you get to put that belt back on.
Megan
Yeah. Yeah.
Alex
And you're like, oh!
Megan
Yeah.
Caitlin
That's made me think of something while you were just talking then Megan, it's that sense of like, ‘Who am I?’ again when you come back to work, too.
I remember this really clear feeling of like, lots of people I'd worked with had been promoted and taken a step up. And yeah, it's, it's sort of like time has gone on without you.
Megan
Yeah.
Caitlin
And you really feel like you're having to play catch up. And depending on what field you work in, you might have to upskill again or learn new things and yeah, it can be really tricky.
Megan
Yeah.
Alex
Did part of you just want to run back home?
Caitlin
Oh, I didn't want to return to work, so I a hundred percent wanted to run back home. Yeah, it took me a while to feel like, oh, I like this again.
Steph
Yeah.
Caitlin
Yeah.
Steph
Yeah. I think that's a pretty normal feeling. So, in my family, we're a little bit different.
Our toddler, she's 3 and a half now, but at this stage, I don't know, it just didn't feel right to send her to daycare and my wife just wasn't interested in that. We did try it for a bit, but it just, I don't know, it just didn't feel right for us.
And I know that is a very privileged position to be in. And, I'm not saying it's easy, it's really like financially quite difficult.
She didn't start, daycare properly until she was like 2 and a half. So it was quite a different experience, I guess.
We found this stage really difficult as parents and one of the most difficult stages, I reckon, because I feel like this is the first major jump in your parenting. From them just sitting there not doing anything, and then they suddenly have feelings and thoughts and concerns and they're starting to throw tantrums and they can't communicate properly.
And, and also our daughter didn't sleep very well –
Megan
Yeah.
Steph
At this stage. And everyone's saying, well, you are doing the wrong thing because our child sleeps for 12 hours a night and we don't hear a peep. And we were like –
Caitlin
So unhelpful.
Steph
So tired. And you know, our daughter was still waking like every hour.
And we were like, when is this ever gonna end? Everyone told me that the baby would be waking heaps and then we'd get over that and the baby stage was really easy for us. Yeah, everyone said how hard that was, and I'm like, that was easy. Like, what, what are you guys talking about?
Then obviously the universe heard us and humbled us so hard. So, yeah, I think it can be a really hard time as well, and we actually found it way harder.
Megan
Yeah. Once they kind of get that autonomy of self. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Steph
So, I think, this age can be tricky to navigate as a parent because there's a lot of decisions you kind of have to make and it's hard to work out what's going to be right for you. Do you go back to work? Do you stay at home? Can you afford to stay at home? Is that really not a reality? And having to make those difficult decisions that might go against your instincts as a parent, it might be really difficult to grapple with.
Megan, how do parents, cope with making those decisions and, especially if they're not ones that they're totally comfortable with?
Megan
Yes. It's so tricky and you're so right. Like so many, families have to make decisions that are really hard and maybe not what they ideally would want to do.
Sometimes as that maternity leave kind of runs out, we're looking at having to go back to work maybe if you're not quite ready, just because of financial, reasons. Not everyone has the privilege to be able to stay home all the time, or, you know, could be even guilt that you want to go back to work.
Caitlin
Mm-hmm.
Megan
So, it can really be either side of the coin, looking at, you know, transitioning into that different period after your baby kind of gets to that one year, or even earlier in some circumstances, not everyone gets maternity leave and they're going back when their babies are 4 to 6 months really.
So, I think in that sense, it's okay to sit with that guilt and that grief of losing that time with your little one but just remembering that they still will be with you the majority of the time. You still have all the other hours of the day to connect and you'll still be bubba's primary caregiver.
And, sending them to daycare definitely does not have a negative effect on their attachment and bonding. And you can still work on that when baby is at home with you.
Caitlin
Daycares do a really good job of supporting kids in that transition. I know both my children had really amazing educators that nurtured them and made them feel safe and supported in that big transition.
But what can we do as parents, for those kids that might be going into care for the first time and they're feeling the adjustment and, what are the sorts of things that we can do to help a child feel safe and secure during this transition?
Megan
So, the first thing would be, before they even start, is to take them for a tour of their new daycare that they're going to be going to. Most daycares will do stay and plays, where you stay with them, but they get a chance to kind of meet their educators, meet the other children in their room, get used to the toys, what it all looks like.
Depending on the age of your little one, trying to keep the routines consistent. So, if they nap at 10 and one or whatever, let your educators know that these are the times my baby likes to nap. And if your baby has a bottle to go to sleep, letting them have a bottle at daycare. If they're rocked, like they like to be rocked to sleep. This is their blanket that they like to sleep with at home. You can take that to daycare.
If they're a younger baby, wear their little comforter down your top for a few days so it's got that smell of you on it, so that when they go to daycare, they've got that with them.
As well as our language around daycare when they're at home. Especially for our children that are like that one to 2 age. They pick up on every single thing that we say. So, you know, even when you're just talking to another adult in the house trying to talk about daycare positively. Not saying like, oh, they have to go to daycare today. The drop off's gonna be so bad, they're gonna cry.
You know, just, ‘It's okay to have emotions, it's okay to feel sad that mummy's going to work. But I'll be here to pick you up in the afternoon.’ And talk about that. Like, ‘What are we gonna do when we see each other this afternoon? Should we have a cuddle or should we have a big kiss? Should we skip out of the daycare? Or you know, what song should we play on the way home?’
Like, try to kind of connect through, I'm gonna see you this afternoon, and what are we gonna do when we have that meeting? And focus on that reconnection.
The other big thing at drop off is to be consistent. Keep it short. Don't stay for too long, because it can just kind of make it a bit worse. You know, ‘I've gotta go. I'll see you this afternoon. I love you so much.’ And leave them with the educator. Try and leave them with, a safe person so that they don't look up and go, ‘Oh, mum's gone.’
Yeah. Yeah. That's such good advice.
Caitlin
Such good tips. Thank you, Megan.
Steph
Yeah, thank you. And I think as well, like this is also where those big emotions come out. They really start having these big emotions they don’t what to do with, and as a parent you don’t know what to do with all these big emotions either. And they start like pushing those boundaries and things like that as well. And, you can feel really lost as a parent thinking, what do I do? Like how do I manage this?
You know, it feels like they wake up one day and they're just like a switch is flipped. And they just pulled out the rug from under you and you're just completely lost on how to manage it. How do we manage that time, with those big emotions?
Megan
It just comes out of nowhere, doesn't it? The big emotions, it’s like what happened to my little baby?
It’s so good for them though. Like their expressing their opinions and their feelings and their autonomy, which as adults we want them to be able to do.
So, the first thing we're going to do is when they're having these big meltdowns, these big feelings is just acknowledgement. ‘Oh yeah, I could see you're feeling really mad. I could see you're feeling really sad.’ Name that feeling for them, because between the age of one and 2, they don't know what they're feeling. They just know that they're not feeling happy.
Or even if they are feeling happy, they can still have meltdown. So, helping them kind of put it into a category of where they're at.
Then our job as their parent is to be their secure base. Someone that they can come back into when they're feeling sad.
So in Circle of Security, we teach the philosophy, if you imagine you're like a big circle and your child goes out on the top of the circle and then they go explore, and then they come back in and you'll see them going round and round and round, going out to explore, coming back, going out to explore, coming back.
And it's so good for their development that they have that secure base, which is us. To give them that confidence to go out and explore their world. And then they come back when they're having that meltdown, feeling sad. And they might even say like, you know, ‘Go away!’ or ‘I don't want you!’ or run off to their room and let them. If they need to kind of go through it on their own, just tell them like, ‘I'm here when you need me’. And just be there when they're ready to come back to you.
Because they might just not be quite ready to come back. And our jobs as parents is to just fill their emotional cups. Give them a cuddle when they're ready. It might just be holding their hand, or they might come back and be like, do you wanna play a game?
Emotions are definitely hard to deal with, and the biggest tip is to make sure that you don't meet them in their chaos. You are trying to be regulated yourself because how easy is it to just go, you know, meet them where they are and get dysregulated by their dysregulation.
Steph
Yeah, especially at that age where a lot of the things that they're losing it over are, are just absolutely so silly, you know? And it's hard to not just be like, well, we just need to go. And you obviously don't say this, but in your head you're like, ‘Oh, come on, like this isn't a big deal, let's just go.’ But they're in the moment and they don't have the ability to be rational or anything like that either. So, we can't put our own expectations of ourselves on someone so little.
Megan
Yeah. Yeah. That's so true.
Caitlin
I love the visual of the circle.
Steph
Yeah. How cool is that?
Caitlin
They're still part of the circle. And you are still part of the circle, but. I mean, you could use it at any age, couldn't you, of that independence of where they're stepping away towards the edge of the circle, but they will come back. I love that. It's a lovely visual.
Megan
It is good. And you can kind of imagine as they get older, the circle gets bigger or you know, different children have different circles. Like some children are runners and they run away at the shop or whatever.
They’ve got a big circle, whereas some kind of like cling to their parents' leg, you know, maybe for that child they've got a smaller circle.
Caitlin
Let's hear now from Shahedah and her husband Sufyaan.
Shahedah:
I came into work one day when the little one was about a year old, and one of my colleagues looked at me and she said, ‘Oh, how you going?’ And I said, ‘Oh fine...’ She looked at me and my manager turned around and they both looked at me and said like, ‘That didn't sound fine.’ And I said, ‘Oh no, we've just been night weaning.’ ‘Oh, how's it going?’ And I just burst into tears and I just sat there and cried. And they just sat with me.
Sufyaan:
Oh man, I remember that.
Shahedah:
And they just sat with me.
Sufyaan:
I remember.
Shahedah:
And it was another colleague who had been in the team for literally a week at that point. And she kind of hovered like, how much do I support? I don't know this person very well.
But she also then got to see how supportive the team was as well, and how well they supported me. They'd been through it themselves and they knew what I was going through. And even if they didn't, they just were happy to sit with me and let me cry until I was ready.
Caitlin
Gosh, that was so honest and relatable. I want to give Shahedah a hug. You know, I think we can all relate to that feeling of just being exhausted emotionally and physically.
I'm so glad she had such supportive colleagues to turn to in that moment.
Steph
Yes.
Caitlin
It shows again, like this idea that we were talking about in the last episode of your village. Your village can be your colleagues as well, and they can be there to help you. Megan, what stood out for you from what Shahedah and Sufyaan shared?
Megan
I think just that feeling of not being able to do either job to a hundred percent.
Steph
I feel that.
Megan
Yeah. Coming back to work and feeling like you're not a hundred percent there and then going home and feeling like you're not a hundred percent there either. Like you're almost failing at both jobs, right?
It's a hard one. And to be able to go and work, they've said they're up night weaning, so they've probably been up all night, not really slept, and then having to go to work that tired and then knowing that after that you've got to go pick up your baby and keep parenting again, and then do it all again that night and the next day.
It feels like just a cycle, doesn't it, that you can't quite get out of. I think, in that circumstance, it's okay to maybe take a step back from either work for a bit, let's just get night weaning done. Or you know, maybe, stop night weaning for a minute and just be able to just feed baby overnight and go back to sleep.
Like, we don't have to do everything all the time. Where you can take a break, like what can be sacrificed? What has to be prioritised?
Or if you are working to that capacity, it was really good that she's told her work colleagues what's going on for her at home so that they kind of are understanding. If you've got an understanding team, it makes a big difference to be able to kind of know what capacity you can work at for that day. And maybe taking on smaller jobs at work for a little bit while you've got a lot going on at home or, letting your partner do most of the stuff at night or of the evening, like they do the bathing and the dinner and stuff like that.
So, you know, you can try and get a bit of rest where you can. Going to bed early. Maybe it's more self-care to just go to bed early when your baby goes to bed or get those few hours consistently that you can before bubba's up for a feed or you're trying to wean them overnight.
Caitlin
That is such a good reminder to sort of take pressure off yourself. You know, it's not just your child transitioning to daycare, you're transitioning back to work and it can be just as big of a transition.
It's really helpful, I think, and Shahedah mentioned this, when you work with people who are parents as well.
Megan
Yeah.
Caitlin
Because they really get it. You have that feeling of, by the time you get to work, you've had a whole day because you know you've got the kids ready, done the drop off, come into work and it might be 9 o'clock, but you've been awake from 5. It's a lot to take on, but somehow we all do it, don't we?
Steph
Yeah.
Megan
It's about teamwork, hey, teamwork at home with your support that you've got, if you've got any, and teamwork at work as well.
Caitlin
You know, not everyone's experiences are the same, are they? It sounds like Shahedah has a really beautiful, supportive workplace, but it isn't the same for everyone.
It's not always easy to juggle that push and pull between your 2 worlds.
Alex
No. And you know, there is the return to work for parents, but I guess in my case, in many other people's cases, there's the not stopping working and you've just suddenly got this new person in your life and you still have to carry on your professional life as well and try and be competent and productive, going through all that.
And I remember around the one to 2 year stage was when it really began to sank in; the responsibilities I had and the priorities were really shifting for me internally. I remember specifically a morning I'd turned up to work. I'd flagged with them that I would be starting a little bit later in the mornings because we had a one and a 2-year-old at home.
The person who was like supervising just absolutely went off at me one morning for not being there early. Shouting, really almost throwing a tantrum. And as he turned to walk out of the room, I called him back in, you know, like, don't speak to me like this, and really kind of asserted myself and a boundary that up until that point I never would've thought of doing in the workplace.
But it just felt to me that the priorities had shifted and where I needed to be that morning, that was where I was. And once I wasn't needed there anymore, I came to work and I was going to be as productive as I possibly could be at work.
I think that boundary setting is super important as you have children and, and the juggle really kicks off around this stage. You know, that one-year-old that things just start getting busier. I think you do get very productive at this time. You're very mindful of, I will turn up, I will do the thing, and then I'll be gone because I have somewhere else to be.
And when other people don't necessarily get on the same page with that, it can create a bit of friction I've found.
Steph
Yeah.
Alex
What's your experience with that, Steph?
Steph
Yeah, I think a bit similar to you. I know that when I went back to work, I had 6 weeks off, when our first baby was born, and it's like oh my God, my whole world is different. And you're walking into this place that’s exactly the same. It's a really like jarring thing to experience and you know you're really tired and you don't feel like the same person anymore. And I remember feeling really angry all the time. I just had this massive like, this ball of anger inside me.
I guess like my tolerance had really slipped and you know, maybe my professionalism a little bit as well, unfortunately, but I just wasn't able to cope with things in the same way or be able to compartmentalise in the same way, because I just thought, I just want to be at home with my baby and it feels so unnatural that I'm not there and it just didn't feel right.
And so anything that went against that really, I don't know, maybe I was in like a fight or flight kind of a situation too, like thinking back. And maybe it was that like adrenaline as well of being like, I'm not where I should be. It was a really hard thing to navigate.
And then, fast forward to this, one to 2-year-old age, like you said, Alex, some people have really not understanding workplaces, but I think even if you do, that guilt is massive.
Megan
And when they get to this one to 2 and they're talking more and they can tell you, ‘Don't go…’ ‘I don't want to go to school...’
I think that makes it a lot harder than when they're little and you kind of are making all the decisions for them without that autonomy from them, or like them being able to express their feelings. Whereas they're getting a few words, especially close to that 2 year age mark and they can really start telling you what they do and don't want.
Caitlin
It's not a nice feeling. I remember my daughter saying, ‘Mummy, I cried all day today.’ And I checked with her teachers and she had not in fact cried all day. But, you know, it is really hard to remove that from your mind and think, are they okay? Are they safe? Are they happy? Have I made the right decision? And especially when it's not your decision.
You just feel like a fish out of water and yeah, you are not in the right place at the right time and it's a really hard feeling to navigate as a parent.
Alex
I think that's a good way to put it. Not in the right place at the right time. That was really how it kind of sat with me as well. You, you just feel like, anywhere else but here right now and yeah, it's tricky.
I feel like we've really done daycare in segment one. We covered a fair amount there. Um, but what about stay at home parenting? Caitlin, I know you were at home for nearly 4 years, was it? How did you find that?
Caitlin
I loved being at home with them. I felt very lucky. Those years with my kids at home were really incredible. At the same time there's obviously challenges.
You know, there's the isolation of being one person at home. And if you've got more than one kid and you know, they can gang up on you sometimes and the responsibility all being on you.
And that division of labour and the feeling of you're never off the clock. You know, the job doesn't end even though your partner's got home. It feels like your domain, I suppose, and your responsibility is over the home. And the comparison too, I had a little bit of longer time off than most people do. So, I had friends that went back to work and that comparison of my choice versus what I saw their choice was and the feeling of am I missing out and what sacrifices I was making by being at home for a longer time.
There's that push and pull, I suppose, between both worlds. But I really did enjoy being there when they were little. And I do acknowledge it's not something that everybody gets to do. So, I felt very, very lucky. And when it came around to my second mat leave with my daughter, I really didn't want it to end 'cause I knew she was my last baby.
But those stay-at-home years were equal parts really hard, that relentlessness and the repetitiveness and the daily grind and the being at home and being alone, coupled with the joy and the privilege of being there with my kids.
Yeah, there was a mix of all of the feelings, I suppose.
Alex
I guess one of the huge benefits of being at home is you see all the milestones. You hear the first words, you see the first crawling, like you really get to witness all of that. I know being at work, and maybe you found the same, Steph, is you come home and you find out about things that you wish you'd kind of maybe been there for as well.
Steph
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Caitlin
Megan, what, what's your sort of take on the challenges and how people who are a stay-at-home parent can look after themselves?
Megan
Yeah, it can be quite isolating I think for, stay at home parents sometimes. Obviously if you're the parent going to work, like you're talking to other people all day and those sorts of things. Whereas, if you're at home, like your day is dictated by nap time. Even if someone messages you like, let's have a coffee at this time, it might be like, oh, I can't really do that time, like you're on someone else's schedule all the time.
And that can be quite overwhelming and isolating. I think as well as, you know, if you've had to take a cut financially as a family, there can be a big strain there of, ‘We can't go out and do things because you know, like we've made the decision to stay at home.’
So that can be a big source of overwhelm and isolation as well for a family. If like, you can only really stay at home or do things that are free. Like that can really affect like your mental wellbeing. So, I think trying to have those little moments that you can, where you do get out of the house, even just for a walk or those sorts of things, as well as, changing your idea of productivity. So being able to say, well, holding my baby for their naps today and, you know, getting to like, hang out with them and be with them, you know, baking with them or whatever you're doing in your day. Like that's productive too.
Alex
I know both my first wife and my second wife both changed careers after kids went back to school.
So that was a real break in a way to kind of really reflect on where am I at in life? Do I really enjoy the things I'm doing? Can I re-skill? So, it might even be a good time if you're at home, even just to start exploring in your own mind what the potential of the future could be as well.
Megan
Yeah. The other options.
Steph
Yeah. You know, my wife is a stay-at-home mum and has been for a few years now, and, I always say to her like, your job is way harder than mine. Like I work, but your job is so much harder than mine. And she's like, oh, your job's way harder than mine.
It's about finding what works for you, but I think, if you are the stay at home parent, you’re navigating some of these new things by yourself a lot of the time, like the tantrums that we were talking about, that start to ramp up around the 18 month mark and you're really not equipped as a parent to deal with them.
How do we stay calm? Because that's the advice, that's generally the advice is stay calm, but that's so much easier said than done when you're in the moment.
Megan
Yeah. 18 months is so fun, isn't it? Their little brains just explode at this age. They just go through a big leap in their development. They start to figure out that they're their own person with autonomy. They start to want to do things for themselves, and often they can't quite do it for themselves.
As well as they're just trying to communicate with us, but often they don't have the language behind them to be able to say, ‘I don't want a blue plate, I want a green plate, right?’
How many times do you think you say no to an 18-month-old in a day? You know, it builds up for them over a day, that they've got no autonomy. They don't make any of the decisions. They go to bed when we tell them to go to bed, they wear what we put on them, they get in the car when we tell them to, you have to wear these shoes, wear a jumper. And they don't have the language to kind of communicate with us as they want to.
And this all builds up in a day for our little ones. And then they have this explosion. Yeah, this tantrum And, you're like, whoa, where did that come from? That was over, like, something so minuscule.
But usually when they're tantrumming over something, it's not about that thing. It's about a buildup from the day. But tantrums are just inevitable, though, as well. And I think the first few times they do it can be quite triggering and like overwhelming as a parent seeing your little one throwing themselves on the floor. Some kids hit the heads against like the wall or like they might throw things or kick and scream and they’re just like a little ball of anger. And that can be quite hard to watch.
As much as it's safe to do though, we need to let them go through all that. The more we pull them out of it and try to get them back to a sense of normal, the more they're going to tantrum.
If you think about it, like if something happens to you and you hold it in all day and then you, you know, wanna cry, wanna cry, wanna cry, keep pushing it back, pushing it back, pushing it back. Then that's when you have your big outburst. Whereas if we just let them have their outburst, usually it will last a shorter amount of time. If we just kind of let them go through those emotions without pulling them out of it and letting them do what they need to do.
Alex
Yeah, that's really interesting. I think early on with my first children, I looked at tantrums and that kind of thing as a behavioural issue, like something I needed to correct rather than something I needed to understand, if that makes sense.
And I guess being an older parent now and going through early childhood again, much later, now I'm looking at it much more of, okay, what's wrong? Like you mentioned, they don't want the blue plate, they want the green plate. They can't tell you that.
But I found what works for me sometimes and little one, is just if I've got loud music on, turn it off. If the fan is on above the oven, turn like any kind of stimulus, reduce it. Maybe take them out of the environment into some fresh air. Take a breath. Okay. Let's just work our way through. Is it this? No. Is it that? No. Once they're able to kind of communicate again, and I don’t know, just find that maybe. I don't know what I'm talking about.
Caitlin
No, no. It's good advice. I remember someone saying, just add water. Whatever sort of day you are having, run a bath or go play in the water outside. Do water play or fill the sink up.
Alex
Yeah.
Caitlin
Like just add water.
Alex
Nature is healing, right?
Megan
And giving them options. You know, do you want to do this or that? And then they can pick and have that self-direction of what they want to do as well.
Caitlin
Giving them some power.
Megan
Yeah.
Alex
Power. Yeah. That autonomy you talked about. When they have no autonomy, just to give 'em a little bit.
Megan
Yeah.
Alex
It really builds their character and then you get to discover what it is they like, right? It's cool.
Megan
It's such a fun age. They're coming into their little personalities and all those things.
So, it is a really fun age, but it is a hard age, I think. Yeah.
Caitlin
And all such good reminders, everything you've said, like they're not going from zero to 100. They might be 99. Like that tips them over, you know, or all of this and this.
This is good advice for a lot of different ages, too. Just being that safe person for your kid.
Megan
Yeah, definitely.
Caitlin
Megan, thank you so much for this conversation. Before we finish, what's one message you'd like parents of toddlers to take away from today?
Megan
I think for our little people, just remembering that they're learning and we are learning alongside them.
And they've never been the age that they are before, so they're just figuring out the world. And we've also never had a child that exact age before in the exact dynamic that we have. So, we're all just learning along the way. And to not focus on perfection but just connect together.
Steph
I love that. And I think someone said to me once, you are growing as a parent alongside your child growing. And I just thought that's such a nice visual to think about as well, to be like, you don't have to have all the answers. Like, you'll work them out together. And to just sort of like lean into that connection and prioritise that.
Megan
Yeah.
Steph
That is really important. I love that.
Thank you, Megan. And thank you as well to Shahedah and Sufyaan for sharing their story.
Alex
That's it from us today and next time we're going to be diving into life with a 2 to 3-year-old.
That's the big feelings, the big opinions, and big questions, especially the one big question, ‘Why?’
And if no one else has mentioned it to you today, you are doing a great job. Until then, take care. Bye!